This transcript is taken from the 4/19/01 dressing room video in the Paramount Theater, Denver CO.
GW:
Hi, this is Barney from the Gratefulweb.org, with Aaron on camera, and
we’re here today with Mark Karan, the lead guitarist of Ratdog, and
he’s given us a couple of minutes before the Show at the Paramount here
in Denver to answer some questions, some have been from our web
viewers, some we’ve just come up with…..at the door a fan handed you
some poetry---
MK: Yes
GW: ..we were commenting on some of the things that says about what were doing here…
MK:
I think it says a lot about the different nature of the scene, from
your average Rock n Roll band, not that there’s anything wrong with
that. As you pointed out before the camera was rolling probably your
typical 3rd Eye blind or something isn’t going to have a fan coming up
offering poetry or artwork or beadwork or interesting or creative along
those lines, I'm just recapping what we talked about earlier, just that
this whole scene is so… stems from creativity, and stems from
communication, and stems from..ah… the joy of the human experience, as
opposed to ah, the classic Rock and Roll Band is: Do I get paid? Do I
get Laid? It’s all-good…
GW:
Its seems to be it always comes full circle again, because, almost by
not having a business plan the genre you guys are in almost is the
business plan…
MK:
Well its become that, more in recent years then what it started out as,
now there’s the whole JamBand scene, I love that, but at the same time
kind of humorous you know, given what it came from, it was sort of the
anti scene that spawned all of this, there was no…., it was the lack of
commercial genre, the lack of a viable commercial outlet for music that
was this experimental and exploratory and honest and not concerned with
the commercial returns, as much as the experience of actually playing
the music and the experience of the audience hearing it, and the
interactive experience of the musicians and the audience. I mean you
could definitely could tell the difference show to show, to some degree
based on where we’re playing--
GW: Is there a geographically different vibe?
MK:
I think there is a geographic vibe to some degree, but that’s not what
I’m not talking about that as much as type of venue. A venue that has
assigned seats and is “nice”, generally will elicit a more polite,
maybe cerebral set out of us. Part of that is also the audience I think
feels a little bit more staid, and a little bit more intimidated in a
setting like that
Whereas
we played someplace like... the place we played in St. Louis or the
place we played in Birmingham Alabama, which were essentially glorified
beer halls and everybody’s (slaps) right in your face and it’s a very
visceral experience, its a very alive…. I mean you could feel the
audience’s energy and they could feel ours and its very animated, and
it makes us play..it raises the bar, it makes us we do more exciting
things in venues like that
GW:
Do you think the live experience is going to become even more of a
commodity with the internet and with music being so accessible, it
becomes well ‘we’ve got to see this band live because…’
MK:
That’s a tough, I don’t know, I hadn’t really thought about that in
those terms. I think that in the mainstream live music is becoming less
and less important. People are more and more used to being able to see
it on MTV or VH1, and used to being able to buy a CD, and that’s kind
of enough. And I think a lot of times what happens is people go to live
shows in a more mainstream setting, is they’ll spend $75 or $100 bucks
for these awesome tickets for Ricky Martin or whatever, and what their
going to get is, the record, the CD, perfectly executed. There’s no
risks, there’s no improvisation, there’s no experimentation, there are
none of the things that to me make live music special. So I think that
what’s going on now is the subculture, that’s always embraced live
music, is just exploding because I think there’s a lot of people out
there that are really getting sick of being forced fed Britney Spears
or Ch risty Aguilera, or whatever, I mean not to single those two woman
out, because I mean there doing what there doing, I have nothing
against them as long as somebody’s enjoying it its all good with me—
GW: The scripts tight—
MK: The script is definitely tight (laughs).
GW:
You talked about the JamBands, do you think that’s similar, not the
same sound obviously, but maybe to the Jazz Fusion of the ‘70’s…Jeff
Lorber…..
MK: I don’t know if I’d go to the ‘70’s and the Jazz
Fusion scene as much, although in some ways yeah, but that was very, to
me that always felt like a very chops orientated music scene, it was
experimental which was cool, it was pushing the envelope, which was
cool, but it was also an awful lot about what your prowess was as a
musician. How great you were. How fast you could play. How many outside
scales do you know. And as a result a lot of that ‘70’s fusion, to me,
and of course this is my opinion, to me a lot of that stuff winds up
sounding like somebody that’s in music school practicing their scales.
GW:
I think a better question is, we were talking about genre before, is
genre heart? You know, you talk about a new genre coming out, is that
just basically a musician that has a heart? Or is he singing a genre
with heart? Or what establishes a new genre?
MK:
Oh God I don’t know. I think what establishes a new genre of music is
really pretty basic. You know, a scene will start somewhere, whether
its in San Francisco in the 60’s or wherever you know London or New
York in the late ‘70’s with the punk scene , or Seattle for the Grunge
thing, or whatever, and for one reason or another I think the
particular style or approach, maybe a philosophy gains a certain amount
of steam and spreads outward from wherever it originated.
GW: When’s the last time we had a genre?
MK:
Well the JamBands are the newest recognizable genre. Because what I’m
seeing in terms of the whole JamBand thing is, and I’m not sure I like
it, I’m seeing a lot of commercial potential arising out of the JamBand
thing. I’m seeing Dave Matthews hit just ridiculous levels of financial
and commercial success. Phish , god just humungous, what I see out of
that a lot of people with business orientated minds , financially
driven motivations jumping on the bandwagon and seeing what they can do
to sort of do to push the JamBands phenomenon into the mainstream, into
the spotlight, to see where they can make the most money. Which in one
sense is great, if it keeps the genre somewhat pure, if some of the
motivations of the bands remain what it starts out as, which is a real
musical motivation and a desire to share great spirits with the
audience, to create a place that’s safe to experiment and feel free,
and expe rience joy without being judged. Those kind of things that
started all of this. If that stays intact and it’s presented to the
mainstream and the mainstream buys it, HOZA! That’s awesome, raise the
bar for everybody! But what I’m afraid of is some of what happened with
say for instance with the grunge scene, for instance. We saw some
essential bands come out of that scene. That were just really great,
whether you liked the style of music or not, you could tell there was
real commitment and real honesty in what they were delivering..
GW: Give me an example…
MK:
Like Nirvana or Mud Honey or Sound Garden, the earlier bands that were
doing that. Pearl Jam. And then I think most of the ones that were
really vital seemed to eventually wind up going away or getting so big
that they were no longer vital. They got swallowed up by the monetary
mainstream. I think that’s what killed Cobain. You know, I think the
guy just wanted to play music. For that matter I think that’s what
killed—I think, not the mainstream so much, but that kind of pressure
is what killed Garcia. Again, there’s a guy, just a regular guy who
wanted to play music. Loved to play music, and found himself in the…
had to have been weird position of being deified. Where people would
dote on his every word and think he was some sort of a god and he
wasn’t. He was just a man. A really great man, a wonderful, sweet man,
who played some amazing music, but nonetheless just a man. And I think
that the pressure of millions of people looking to him for spiritual
and social guidance (laughs) , I mean, I wouldn’t want the gig.
GW: But you said before how the no business plan becomes decades later an amazing business plan—
MK: Well you kinda said that—
GW:
Ok, I’ll say it, the free taping.. there are things that , I don’t know
if it was Garcia, but the Dead do, things you guys allow like taping….
MK:
Yeah, I guess the difference there for me is I don’t see that as a
business plan as much because there’s no profit motive there—
GW: But it’s smart though.
MK:
Well it spreads the music. So in that sense I guess you could look at
it as smart, and I certainly don’t think its stupid. But I think
there’s actually purer motivation behind it. I think it does involve
getting the music out there. But I don’t think its as much about
getting the music out there to further the career of whoever the band
is, as it is a matter of getting the music out there because whoever
that band is, and whoever is going to see that band really loves what’s
going on musically and wants to share it and spread it around.
GW: Exactly. But not all bands do it.
MK: No, I totally agree, obviously—
GW: So it is one of the things that define kind of what’s happening here.
MK: Yeah sure.
GW: We have a lot of people that want us to ask about NAPSTER…
MK: Oh boy, are you sure you want to go there?
GW: We’ll go anywhere you want to go—
MK:
I’m fine with going there, but I’m pretty vehemently anti-napster, my
position on it is pretty straight ahead, I’ve been asked about it
enough times that I think I can give a reasonably focused answer to my
feelings about that. Essentially where I come from is that anyone that
creates something I feel should have the option to decide what happens
to that thing that they created. So musically, if I make a record and
there’s a site that exists like a Napster, if Napster wants to come to
me and give me the choice and say ‘we would like to have your music on
our site, how do you feel about that? Would you like it to be on our
site? If its on our site, we’d like to offer it for free, do you feel
the need to be paid for it?, whatever. talk to me—
GW: --communicate—
MK:
-- communicate, you know, lets get something that works for everybody.
And if I determine, yes by all means please take my music and put it
out there for free, then download away, it’s awesome. But, if as an
artist I decide, for whatever my personal reasons are, I feel I want to
be paid, or I don’t want it on the site at all, I made it, its my art,
its my baby. I want something to say about where its going, and when it
comes to being paid for something like that, people have been paid for
their intellectual properties, their intellectual creations throughout
history. Its not something new….in fact the idea of getting it all for
free is what’s new.
GW: (laughs) What did they call it on the awards ceremony, “shopliftster?”
MK: (laughs) I hadn’t heard that but I like that—
GW: The Grammy’s?
MK:
Here’s the thing. Its awesome if there are people out there that can
afford too, or just have a philosophical bent towards giving away their
art for free..that’s great. Personally, I love my music, I love my art,
quite genuinely and quite purely, by the same token I make my living at
it. If I don’t get paid for what I do, I don’t pay my rent, I don’t
make my car payment, I don’t keep food on the table just like anybody
else. I’m not going to some lawyer’s office or some accountant’s office
and saying “Well what you do should be free, dude.” So why is it what I
do, what I put my blood, sweat and tears in, my time and my hard work
into, and my inspiration and my creativity, why should I be asked to
give that away for free? And there’s so many different ways to be
compensated for something like that, I mean, you could offer.. say for
instance a person puts out a CD, you could offer a couple of songs for
fr ee downloads total at high bandwidth---
GW: Would the CD have a pass code or something?—
MK:
Say for instance somebody wanted to check out a CD. So you offer them a
couple of free downloads at the highest possible bandwidth. And then if
they like the CD, go buy it. Or you could offer them the first 45
seconds of every song, but not the whole song. And then if you like
them all, go buy it.
GW: So its communication between artist, Napster—
MK:
Well it’s also the sites, like the Napster and Nuetella, and the people
that are using the sites being aware of what they’re actually asking
for. Being aware of the impact of what they’re doing.
GW: Could they dry up musicians?
MK:
Hypothetically, on some level, yeah. I don’t think they could ever dry
up musicians per se, somebody’s always gonna play music on some level,
but I think what you might wind up with is a lot of—only young people
and hobbyists.
GW: Are we lowering the bar again?
MK:
I think so, yeah, because who could afford to devote their entire life
to something that’s not going to make them a living? Your not going to
have an 80 some odd year old Segovia, master guitarist of all time, who
spent his entire life playing the guitar if he couldn’t make a living
at it. And I hear arguments saying “Well then take it out live and make
your money live.” Well that’s great, but what happens when you get to
be in your 40’s, your 50’s, your 60’s, you’ve got a wife, you’ve got
children, you have a home, you don’t mind touring once in a while but
maybe you don’t want to live out of a Bus 300 days a year, you know? So
you should be forced to give up what you love doing? I don’t think so,
I don’t think that’s right. Lets say for instance you’re an act more
like Steely Dan, or where the Beatles wound up, where the music they
were making couldn’t be reproduced live, because the art that they mad
e was recorded art.
GW: Which is valid right?
MK:
It’s totally valid. And you cant go out and do that live, so you cant
say, ‘well go do it live’ it’s a completely different beast. The idea
that music is for everybody and should be free is, I mean, to me, is
ridiculous. Things should be free that are offered for free by the
person that has them.
GW:
Theirs another kind of ice cream in the truck, there’s live recordings
made, and that stuff is on Napster. Do you think that applies too?
MK:
Once again, I think it depends on the artist. There are artists out
there that do not support the trading and recording of live shows.
That’s their call, it’s their art. I personally do support it. You
know, I work with RatDog, and The Other Ones, and Planet Drum, and all
those Bands have the same open taping policy that the Dead always had.
I also have my own band, which is called Jemimah Puddleduck.
GW: Yes, they made me say the name 20 times—
MK:
(laughs) You get tongue twisted, yeah—unless you’ve grow up on Beatrix
Potter! But we adopted the same policy: Anyone who wants to come tape
our shows that’s awesome! Trade it? Yes, Please! Don’t sell it. Give it
away..and don’t copy and trade and give away what I make
commercially…back to the whole Napster thing, I’ve heard a lot of the
argument “Well the record companies are ripping off the artists anyway
, so if we just screw ‘em, and take the money away from them by doing
all for free..well first of all, yes the big labels can be pretty
brutal about the way they do business, and yes the artists and writers
can get screwed in the process, absolutely. Nonetheless they are
getting some royalties, so if you give it away for free, your cutting
off whatever amount they are getting, they’re no longer getting
anything. Secondly, you take a band like Jemimah Puddleduck that goes
and makes a CD, completely ou t of pocket and all of a sudden that CD
is mounted on Napster, or Newtella, or whatever other sites come up,
all of a sudden that CD is available for free. that means I cant even
necessarily get my investment back, much less make a few dollars for
what it is I put out there—
GW: Then what’s the motivation to make music?
MK:
Yeah, and also what’s the motivation of me coming out of pocket for
several thousand dollars if I’m not gonna see it-- at least get it back
GW: Where do you see it going?
MK: I don’t really know—
GW: I don’t know who has the answer—
MK:
I really don’t know. I think part of the problem right now is a lot of
people that are using Napster are young people that don’t have a real
solid grasp of what the repercussions are. They have a …I think there’s
a lot of very idealistic and generalized views of what’s going on
without having had a whole lot of practical thought put to like.. well
how does.. on a nuts and bolts human to human level how is this really
going to affect people out there that are making music. I’m hoping
that’s where it will wind up is that via things like this, via people
like us having these conversations, and whether I approve or not, bands
like Metallica making a big noise about ‘hey, quit ripping us off.’ It
at very least is gonna broach the subject, its gonna force people to
become a little more educated. I like to believe in essential good
nature of humans to think they will rise to the occasion. I think the
only reas on people are getting screwed right now, that are making
music is, no offense, ignorance. I don’t think its hostility, or apathy
or anything like that. People just aren’t thinking about what the real
repercussions might be via their actions.
GW:
Well you’ve raised several points I did not think about. And we’ve also
heard the arguments that you’ve raised and you answered them all pretty
well. I think it’s important that people understand, just listening to
your sound check. I mean you guys are working.. I know this sounds so
basic, they come to the show and it’s a party, but there’s a lot of
work going on, and you guys gotta go 900 miles on the road after this--
MK:
That right. And we’re living out of a bus…of course they are too!
(laughs) The kids that are following the tour are rolling out sleeping
bags and camp gear, but you know, its what we do, its what we do for a
living, its what I do every day of my life on some level.
GW:
Can we at least, because we’ve gotten thank you’s, pass on a thank you
from many, many browsers, people that listen to your music: they do
appreciate you guys, keep it goin—
MK:
That’s a bi-directional thing- I mean we’re nothing without the people
that come and see us, the people that exchange with us so, I mean I
think sometimes the ‘big fellers’ that have been doing this for thirty
plus years may get a little jaded sometimes, or get a little hard to
get to, that’s because people have been in their face for thirty plus
years…so I think .they still appreciate what’s going on it’s a little
hard to reach them, but somebody like me? I mean I’ve been struggling
all my life as a musician..and three years ago I had the wonderful good
fortune to be asked to play with the Other Ones and out of that with
RatDog and Planet Drum and the other things that I’ve done since then,
I’m 46 years old . It took me till I was 43 to be able to make a decent
living at this and (palms together) thank you (laughs).
GW: And it never ends, I mean even RatDog your sets are going two sets, we’re seeing evolution happening--
MK: Absolutely--
GW: Adding some more old tunes.…is that democratic? A Democratic process?
MK:
To some degree its Democratic, anyone can bring anything up. Huey Lewis
once put it to me, a fully democratic band doesn’t actually work. You
have to have a chief and some Indians. All the Indians can have all the
say that they want, and that’s awesome, but somebody’s has to have the
vision. To be trite, the buck’s gotta stop somewhere, and in this
instance that’s with Bob. It’s why I don’t sing with this band. You
know I front for Jemimah Puddleduck and I love to do that, and
truthfully I’d love to do that with RatDog. But Bob and I talked about
it, and he feels it’s the first time he’s really had a musical avenue
to fully pursue just what he wants to do and what he wants to hear, and
what his musical vision is, facilitated by all us, but still with him
as the spearhead, and he does not want to shift the focus and I can
respect that.
GW:
Its probably nice in a way, comforting to know that when you’re here
with RatDog you’ve got a conductor, and your also conducting
Puddleduck.
MK:
Truthfully, it does make much difference one way or the other to me , I
mean if he were to decide tomorrow ‘actually you know what I’d really
love to throw you a song or two a night’ I’d say great, awesome If that
never happens I’m totally fine with that. The bottom line is, like
anything this is a great situation overall, but like anything it has
its downsides, it has it problems here and there and what not. Whenever
I’m looking at anything like that, whether its like, ‘I wish I could
sing’, or whether its whatever comes up, the bottom line for me is I
look around at what it is that I’m doing, I look around at the guys I’m
doing it with, and I look around at the people I’m doing it for…
GW: And it’s good?
MK: I’m freakin lucky! (Laughs) You know? Yes this does not suck.
GW:
We were saying that driving here, that life is good. We’re really
happy, we’re non profit but we’ve met so many people were just having
fun and I think it goes back to the first things you said, have a
little heart at what your doing. Then the stuff seems to spin off…
MK: yep.
GW:
And if some Dracula’s suck some of that stuff, you’ll spin more stuff.
Hey I’m happy, I don’t want to take too much of your time, I know you
guys gotta eat and play.
MK: Any specific questions?
GW: We have letters and peoples emails we should actually….”When was the last time something blew you away?”
MK: Something I was involved in? I mean that’s pretty general…
GW: You can go in any direction…
MK: I would say the last time something blew me away was… the last gig we did! (Laughs).
GW: When was that?
MK:
The night before last, when we’re in Cedar Rapids…we just did some
really nice experimental things musically, some really exploratory
things. This tour has just been wild, it’s been wonderful. Because the
two set thing has opened up a whole world in terms of the kind of
exploration and risks we can take musically, how much freedom we can
give to a song before we have to rein it in and kind of say ‘oh yeah
that’s right were in this song…(laughs).’
GW: And the audience too, ‘oh boy we have to come back to the melody’
MK: I mean we’ve had a couple of shows that were just mind boggling for us, I mean I can’t say—
GW: Its it mind boggling when you look around and everyone goes ‘was that great or what?’
MK:
The ones I’m talking about yeah. There are nights where one person
might go ‘Oh god that was an amazing show’ and somebody else might go
‘are you kidding me, that sucked.’ For that matter I’ve heard stories
about Garcia that say he never likes to judge Grateful Dead shows,
because the shows he thought were brilliant he’d go back and listen to
the tape and it blew, and shows where he was having a hard time, so he
thought the show sucked, he’d go back and listen to the tape and there
were moments of sheer magic ….so I try not to judge on that level, but
there’s a certain.. when everybody comes off the stage glowing and just
buzzing with energy, you know something happened.
GW: Like maybe you were playing in Rome a thousand years ago and you’re just--
MK: Yeah, I don’t know--
GW: ---Recommunicating...Is it mediation? Do you leave? A little bit?
MK:
Yeah..Yeah, I mean I cant speak for everybody else, but I think yeah,
you know. I think the real magic with music in general, in improvised
music happens when you get out of your own way. People, most of us tend
to be pretty cerebral we tend to try to figure things out and what’s
gonna work and what’s not gonna work and if I wanna get there do I need
to go here and you know, the beauty and inspiration is when you let go
of all of that and allow yourself to make glaring ugly mistakes, so
that you have the freedom to go somewhere really really interesting
that maybe you don’t go..I don’t want to get into a whole spiritual,
metaphysical thing, but I definitely believe the most wonderful stuff
happens when the energy of the universe, god, whatever you choose to
believe in, is channeled through you because you get the hell out of
the way. You’re not thinking about it, your not planning it your not
plotting i t, it’s coming through you and your body, your being is
executing it—
GW: Do you sometimes go Whoa!
MK: Absolutely!
GW: And you’re back and no no! I wanna go back!
MK: The minute you notice it’s goin on, its over!
GW:
Oh, man, damn I want to see the show tonight, not Mike. Mike’s like
he’s too sick to be here, but he thinks he’ll be better to see the
show.
MK: Oh, fine!
GW: Can you imagine? I have to drive back, cause we’re in Boulder
MK: Oh, man, that’s not fair.
GW: I want to stay. The sound check really just got me. I was just like, whoa I’m ready to just go…
MK: Well, you know, feel free to talk to Chuck about that. He asked us to keep the guest list down tonight---
GW:
--My wife would actually shoot me because I did not line up a
babysitter tonight. I was reading these questions to Mike, and he was
supposed to be here…but I’m really happy, you’re a wonderful person to
interview, your very warm, and this has been great.
MK: Cool.
GW: I don’t want to cut you short, I mean—
MK: I’m fine, whatever makes you guys happy.
GW: We are non profit, so if there’s any non profit you have a thing in your heart for you can mention that—
MK: Not really, the same stuff we’re all in support of, you know “Save the Rainforest”, “Try to Impeach George Bush” (laughs)
GW:
We have George Bush questions, do you want to get into George Bush? If
Mike were here, it would have been a roast George Bush interview. In
Colorado 800,000 acres are up for grabs, he wants to take away money
from the Fish and Wildlife Service, no the Environmental Service which
is Solar and Wind Energy. What we were all brainstorming, is he just
wants tar. He wants charcoal, he wants fossil fuels, cause that’s a
thing you can charge a commission on.
MK: Right.
GW: But air and light, people can have it in their homes, you know?
MK: mmmm hmmm.
GW: It’s not my interview, but that’s what’s happening in Colorado.
MK:
I think its happening to some degree all over the world. Not just in
this country. What’s going on with the Rain Forest in South America and
that kind of shit going on its just crazy.
GW: Aaron is the Rain Forest. C’mon Aaron, give me a rainforest question. Ok……Is the rainforest your thing?
MK:
No, Not really. I don’t have “a” thing. My thing is…..I consider myself
a humanitarian. I would like to see the world embrace more
spirituality, more respect for art, more respect for Nature, more
respect for one another, less profit and monetary motivations for
things. The idea that were all born truly-- or whatever the little
animal is that comes out of mom, we have an opportunity on this planet
to support one another. We have an opportunity on this planet to have a
wonderful shared experience. We also have an opportunity to shit on
each other and to be greedy and to follow our baser natures. And I
think all of us are at pretty much constantly at war with those two
things on some kind of level. So I guess really ultimately what I’m in
support of is just people being as conscious as they can possibly be.
Because I think consciousness covers all of those areas. If you are a
conscious individual, your no t gonna crap on your planet, your not
gonna crap on your brother, your gonna see what needs to be taken care
of, and your gonna take care of it because you’re a caring individual.
GW: Do you think just having people meet en masse for some drums and some music--?
MK: Absolutely.
GW: ---people, the smell of sweat, we’re just chimps and we need to just get poundin--?
MK: Yes. Without some sort of a $100 ticket and a venue attached to it, yeah absolutely.
GW: Right. It’s not for showing off..
MK: It’s an experience..
GW: …get down…
MK:
Well, back in tribal days they had that kind of thing. And even in the
villages there were village gatherings, there were barn raisings or
whatever, community activities that were not profit motivated. I mean a
barn raising, what the hell is a barn raising? It’s a bunch of people
that know each other, that know that one of those people has something
they need done and they cant do by themselves. And they all get
together, and they do this wonderful thing. They put all their juice
into it, and they do this wonderful thing. And the only thing they get
out of it, is the fact that they did something cool for their friend.
GW: Well Jimmy Carter’s doing that.
MK: Right.
GW: While George’s father is making billions in Saudi Arabia with a big oil cartel. He’s not building any homes!
(Someone sings in the hallway : “Its now or never”)
MK:
Well, I think you’ll find that unilaterally, this band does not support
the George Bush administration. And we were, to say the very least,
horrified, at the way the whole election came down. We were on tour
last fall, and watching all this crap come down on our tour bus and we
were just incredulous, like ‘this can not be happening.’
GW: Can it be good in a weird way, my neighbor who voted for the third party guy, ???
MK: Nader?
GW: He says that it will be good because people woke up?
MK:
I’m not so sure, because it was a reasonably close race, so the only
people who woke up, were the people on the Gore side of the fence, or
the Nader side of the fence woke up to the fact that they better mind
their p’s and q’s because the system isn’t necessarily always going to
serve ‘em. But there’s a lot of people out there that voted for George
W. And that’s pretty scary. In fact what’s really scary about that is
there’s a whole lot of people out there that are impoverished, or
minority, or any number of other things, I mean George is all about the
thumb (presses thumb down on shelf) with these people, and their voting
for the man, and I do not get it.
GW:
I say in our latest Grateful Word, I talk about people downstream of
Appalachia, you know how they are lowering the arsenic levels in our
water?
MK: No I don’t know about that.
GW:
He’s approved more arsenic in our water. He said it's too stringent,
what Clinton passed. So the people in Appalachia downstream of the
strip mining, are gonna get it in their wells. But they probably voted
for George Bush anyway.
MK: Right. Cause he’s a good republican.
GW:
Yeah, cause Clinton made a mockery of the presidency. Now they got
their moral president, this is a quote, I say, they got their moral
president, drink a toast with the water in your well to your moral
president.
MK:
Yes, well, we probably don’t need to do all of this on the interview,
you know moral president? What? Clinton’s the first guy that’s gotten
caught is the only thing.
GW: Oh, I don’t think—I’m saying they buy that.
MK:
No, I know. But you go back to JFK, and Camelot, and how his whole
administration was idealized, and he was a little ho! (laughs)
GW: All that matters is what they’re passing, and the laws they are passing. I don’t care about behind the doors--
MK:
Exactly. Exactly. I mean what he did behind closed doors with Monica
Lewinsky was what he was doing in his private life, in his off time.
And when I look at the results of the Clinton administration, ---
GW: on?—
MK:
In terms of the budget, what happened with our world wide trade
relations, etc, etc, etc. I think the country that Bill Clinton left us
with is in pretty damn good shape. And I would say it’s pretty apparent
from looking at what’s already happened in less then 6 months, that
were in for a bumpy ride with W.
GW: Should we just riot now--?
MK:
You know its funny cause Bob was saying that. When all this shit was
going on in the fall, we were watching it, he was like, ‘it’s the
sixties, baby, were going to have to go to jail (laughs).
GW: But that’s the spirit that you need.
MK:
I think so. I think people have gotten very complacent. Myself
included. I mean as a teen I was pretty active in the whole black power
movement, and the anti Vietnam movement, and just pretty politically
aware, myself and all my friends kind of—
GW: I’m 38.
MK: Well I’m 46. So we’re basically from the same sort of—
GW: You were still with the cool kids though—you were 60’s, we were like, 70’s.
MK: Well 70’s is cool.
GW: Well…
(beeps)
MK: Well I don’t think we need my cell phone..(turns it off) we’ll kiss that goodbye….
Aaron (on camera): Thanks a lot, appreciate that.
MK:
(to cellular) You’re supposed to shut off now…but as I’ve gotten older,
I haven’t kept up with all that. I find myself beginning to get more
political again.
GW: Because of Bush?
MK:
In part. I have 16 years clean and sober, and I recently started
partaking of the noble herb again. And that’s another issue as far as
I’m concerned. I think its ridiculous. I don’t know a whole lot of
people in prisons around the country that are in prison for violent
crimes because they smoked a joint. But I know a whole lot of people
that are in prisons around this country for violent crimes because they
drank alcohol, which is perfectly legal.
GW:
The major drug companies don’t want people to self medicate, they make
billions dishing out Prozac and all that other stuff.
MK:
Right. Well that’s certainly true. But even if you weren’t to take it
to the self medication place, and I know that’s a platform that a lot
of people myself included are standing on looking to get herb
legalized. But even if it were just for entertainment and relaxation,
that’s what alcohol is there for, and it’s legal. And if I smoke a
joint, I’m not going to kill anybody on the highway, I’m probably not
going to get into a fight, I’m probably not going to beat up or yell at
my children. But if I drink alcohol, its pretty likely I’m going to do
at least one of those things at some point.
GW: I think I would be an alcoholic if I didn’t have herb.
MK: I am an alcoholic. That’s one of the reasons I’m pretty vehemently anti alcohol (laughs).
GW: Maybe I haven’t admitted I’m an alcoholic. I’m a two, maybe three beer a day guy, so maybe that is alcoholism.
MK:
I doubt it, my definition of alcoholism is pretty much in line with the
AA definition which is if alcohol is creating a problem in your life,
and your continuing to partake, then your probably alcoholic.
GW: I need a drink by 5 when my two little kids are crying. Are you married?
MK: No.
GW: Have you ever been married?…. wanna go there?
MK: Spiritually I’ve been married. I’ve never actually had the paper and the ring.
GW: Have you had old girlfriends look you up on the Internet?
(both laugh)
MK: My very first looked me up on the Internet and found me.
GW: Isn’t the Internet amazing?
MK:
It is amazing. And that’s also been true for some really dear old
friends of mine. One guy that I was best friends with in Junior High
that I saw spottily and then hadn’t seen at all for like 15 years found
me, and we’re best friends again.
GW: So what up with the girlfriend?
MK: We’ve become friends. I didn’t have any interest in rekindling that, I have a bad habit of dating younger woman—
GW: Uh-oh—
MK: She’s my age.
GW: So Mike should have been here for that, he is… you can just ride him…he is…he’s amazing.
MK: Oh yeah?
GW:
He’s 10 years younger then me, he’s got blue eyes, he’s your ticket.
And that’s what we were telling him is the propaganda, just take him
out. ‘Well I’m nervous” “Just go to a bar with him…So you’ve got to
give mike a shot because he’s upset he missed this—
MK: Well if he’s coming later that’s all good—
GW: But he can help you with the hunnies…he’s a magnet…..we hate it as his brothers--
MK: Oh no no no you have to enjoy it, because you know, there’s always the leftovers….(laughs)
GW: I’m married and uh--
MK: Cut that! (laughs)
GW: ….I’m happy as hell, this is too much, I’m going to do this for a living..
MK: Alright, I’m going to get some dinner—
GW: You have to go DO a living!
MK: Yeah, I do. Thank you.
Thank you’s:
FIN
